Curse

GuildWarsPlayer · Sep 15, 2005, 05:17 PM // 17:17

I'd like to hear some people from Anet about it.

If they don't want to change it then they should say so.
If they are planning on some fix, they should say so.

Either way, and despite some comments from the dev team in these threads, they don't seem to care at all about it. I may be harsh and apology if i'm wrong.

There is not any clear and official statement from Anet that says they are going to do/not going to do something about it. Supposedly they are close the the gamer community... Please prove it and give us some infos, not screenshots.

aron searle · Sep 15, 2005, 06:00 PM // 18:00

Quote:

Don't flame me here, flame the community. Or have you closed your eyes on what is actually HAPPENING in PVP?

Example a:
Team joins
A: "Have fun and a fair match"
B: "LOOOL STFU NOOB; ME ROCKZ0RS!"

Example b:
A: "What skills did you bring?"
B: "I'm rank 9!!!!!!"
A: "Yes, i don't care, what skills did you bring?"
A: "Noobs!!!"
A Leaves

First off, i may come across as a bit of a troll. But i wasnt trying to flame you.

Yes i have come across that before, i simply ignore it as i find thats its the attitude of a few that act so childish (sometimes it does seem like everyones out to call you and your team noob so i now where your coming from), and ive come across WORSE than that in PVE.

one guy was whispering to me every name under the sun because i didnt do what he said to, despite the fact that through everypart of the mission he completly ignored anyones instructions and did his own thing.

People can be tits, But normally its only a fair few like this.

Quote:

Because it is the both extreme sides and thus they are both compared in comparison.

Making a comparison is one thing, what i am sick of hearing is some PVE's trashing PVP and vica versa.

like calling them all assholes.

Quote:

Free speech, censorship and your wannabe try to flame me have nothing in common. Try again, try harder. But know that i don't care what you think of me and that i don't care if you get offended by a few words that got censored anyway. On a sidenote, also know that i am 34 years old, have a family, a wife and two small children. I've got a job which i'm very happy with. I'm 1.93 cm large. Now where exactly should i grow up again? Maturity? I'm more mature than most. Size? Same here.

Well youve abviosly taken this badly, so ill say this.

I didnt set out to flame you so sorry on that note.

But go round calling all PVP's assholes and swearing everyother word, does not make you look like a grow up.

Carinae · Sep 15, 2005, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kampfkeks

It was an extreme example. It is just a fact that some builds do better in PVP than others. You do agree on that don't you? The same build that works in PVP won't probably work in PVE (like the invinci monk - they got literally shattered to death). Do you still agree?The builds that would dominate in the fight would be those that are leaning into PVP. They would reach the Underworld as they were more fitting to the PVP Environment. But they won't stay down there for long as their build is less fitting in a PVE Environment.

Nonetheless, every concept that blocks out a specific build just because it is not able to compete with another party in PVP while it would be THE answer in PVE is just taking away from the freedom of choice.

Yes, I understand. I am all PvE, but would rather have my fate in my own hands, so to speak, and not depend on some mysterious PvP team to gain favor.

How about this:

There is a PvP arena in ToA.
Only PvE chars can enter this arena.
Victories gain Favor and Rank/Fame, but no Faction or Rewards.
When your Nation has Favor, everything works like it does now.
When your Nation loses Favor, YOU can help get it back.

Currently, if your side loses favor, the vast majority of PvE players can't DO anything about it. Were SOL. By putting the arena here, PvE players aren't dependant on PvPers who don't really care about Favor anyway.

GuildWarsPlayer · Sep 15, 2005, 08:05 PM // 20:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carinae Dragonblood

There is a PvP arena in ToA.
Only PvE chars can enter this arena.
Victories gain Favor and Rank/Fame, but no Faction or Rewards.
When your Nation has Favor, everything works like it does now.
When your Nation loses Favor, YOU can help get it back.

Currently, if your side loses favor, the vast majority of PvE players can't DO anything about it. Were SOL. By putting the arena here, PvE players aren't dependant on PvPers who don't really care about Favor anyway.

Mhh ... I don't really see what it will change from the actual game mechanics. You would see people turning their PvE character into IWAY, Smites, N Builds to enter the arena, just as it is now...

kalaris · Sep 15, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Just for humor's sake... Shouldn't the title of this read: "The underworld is too cool for your continent"

anyway, I can honestly see the frustration of the Europians, back upon release, America couldn't wrestle favor from the Korean's for very long... I'm guessing they all got bored, and moved to another game, since America always has favor these days...

It is INCREDIBLY Difficult for Europe to win HoH, since their teams are outnumbered 100:1 most times... not to mention if they come across a counter build to theirs, not only does their team lose, but now their whole Continent suffers their tragic defeat.

I'd kinda be in favor of underworld being free to those with favor.
pay to play for those without.

oh and much like skills, just friggin double the cost to get in, everyone wins -- sorta =P

schutz · Sep 15, 2005, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Some interesting thoughts, but i like it how it is im a european in american servers and every european i know is also in american servers, euro is getting it back quite a bit recently and koreans have had it very little but ive stopped going as it has got as boring as smiters and iway builds, they need something to bring new life into it

Carinae · Sep 15, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19

It doesn't change the nature of the PvP battles, it changes the composition of the PvP battles. They would be filled with PvE characters, people discouraged/disenchanted with PvP Ladder play, fighting for a simple purpose. Favor.

There is no obligation beyond a couple of battles. No guild crap, No HoH crap.

CTF, Capture The Favor.

Vangor · Sep 15, 2005, 11:06 PM // 23:06

The problem is, I believe with anything besides a simplified system (notice within my own, one victory after 4 hours straight holding it by a team, would probably allow a team to control it, as well, if a team won it and held it for 2 hours, then the team with 0 time to it has a major advantage and would only have to win twice, though maybe if the time was moved out to say 6 or 8 hours it would make it more obvious if one team claimed it, another team held it for a while, without allowing that first team to immediately claim it once again after only 4 hours, which is a rather short time.

I would almost agree with paying for it lacking the favor of the gods, there still needs to be some system within the game giving that HoH a true purpose and merit beyond simply ranking and ladders, it has to be a reason to win it. I cannot see that the few plat you spend for a decent run is that big of a loss when essentially you will be a PvEr, who has been slaughtering dwarves and giants left and right, I think you all can scrape together 2k without much of a problem, even inside.

As much as, to be honest and blunt, you PvErs want to whine, piss, and moan about being forced into PvPers, anyone who has ever wanted to PvP has been cut off at the ankles in practically every game ever released, even DaoC, which had one of the best focuses and systems for PvP, shifted heavily towards a highly PvE aspect, and realistically it was far more difficult to level purely via PvP within the BG (I did it 32-37, but that is another story), and many games do force people to PvE if they want to PvP. Thus, if ArenaNet wants to place a bit more of a pinnacle to doing PvP, since you can truly assign top seats and so forth (notice that is possible with Trials of the Gods!) in such a way, and give something unique towards that victory, I am all in favor of it.

Until someone gives a reasonable other reward for winning the HoH that is a much more worldwide and linked effect, and an alternative system to gaining UW via PvE means that is better than TotG or something akin, I could not, for what it is worth, agree with changes to the system, except with respect to how I did it, making it easier to claim the less you have it and more difficult to hold the more you do.

-malachi- · Sep 16, 2005, 01:47 AM // 01:47

Sort of one word to explain why Koreans aren't so big in hoh "Lineage 2" (not sure about the "2" but whatever). Last I heard 1 out of 3 over there play lineage2. Now, I play mostly pvp anymore...because honestly the pve gets very repetitive to me (no offence), and there are many assholes in pvp but ignore them. I will always say "gg" at the end of a match regardless of win or loss, regardless of how they ranted or raved. It is actually for people like that that I wish there was a monthly fee, so that they could not afford the chunk out of there allowance to play everymonth :P (no need to flam, for those of you who didn't catch the sarcasm it was mostly a joke). The assholes in pvp are most probably idiots in reallife anyhow, so a person with 1.93m large or something like that can simply overlook them...cause well, you have a life they wish they had...maybe.

Anyway, I like the idea to fight a tourny into uw/fow, it would probably cut down on FOTM builds because they suck in pve.
However if thats not good enough, I say free for favor nation, 1k a person for non favor, so total of 8k a run per team...lets you get in but only if you really must have it now, and you can make over 2k a trip atleast with a non idiot team.

EternalTempest · Sep 16, 2005, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I have an off the wall idea's.

With the next expansion, introduce 1-2 more relams with the statues. Open up Fow/Uw to the world but put the new realms in the same "favor" system.

Create a secondary access (like someone said eariler) keep favor system but if you beat Hoh, you can go on to access (reguardless of who has favor). Maybe go on a difficult PvE quest that's only access w/o favor to gain access (and make it challenging) but retain your PvE team.

Have everyone access Fow/UW but if you don't have favor, things will be missing (like Fow Armorer) or have drops be at 1/2 rate or some sort of penalty for not having the favor (jack price to 2k plat maybe as mention elsewhere?).

Some ideas, nutshell kinda keep the system but allow an alt access to it that has to be earned each attempt in a non-HoH way or the access isn't "full" featured if you don't have favor via HoH.

Kampfkeks · Sep 16, 2005, 09:20 AM // 09:20

About EternalTempests Idea, i think we allready have highlevel content for those that completed the game. If you could only repeat the quests there once you completed the final assault

Navaros · Sep 16, 2005, 09:40 AM // 09:40

on paper the World at War system is good

in reality, it sucks

reason being is because anyone who is peeved off at not having favor has no power whatsoever to do anything about it. Guild Wars is designed in such a way that a bunch of angry players can't just go and say "let's all meet in Tombs 3 and get favor back". they would lose in round 1 in Tombs.

in short, the PVE reward has no direct connection to the players who win that reward for the realm in the HoH. hence, the current system makes no sense whatsoever

they should keep the concept of World at War, but change it so that PVE players who are peeved off at having no favor can actually go do something about it directly

one way would be to make sure that teams from the same country never ever fight each other in Tombs.

another way would be to take the connection of ToA/HoH away from Tombs entirely, and attach it to an entirely new PVP mode

in any case, the current system of players who happen to win the HoH having no relevance whatsoever to the ToA side of the game is obviously a ludicrous one that must be changed

Albino Chocobo · Sep 16, 2005, 10:59 AM // 10:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vangor

As much as, to be honest and blunt, you PvErs want to whine, piss, and moan about being forced into PvPers, anyone who has ever wanted to PvP has been cut off at the ankles in practically every game ever released, even DaoC, [...] Thus, if ArenaNet wants to place a bit more of a pinnacle to doing PvP, since you can truly assign top seats and so forth (notice that is possible with Trials of the Gods!) in such a way, and give something unique towards that victory, I am all in favor of it.

You're right, this is blunt. To be as honest as you are, I don't think PvE players are whining. I don't want to whine. I don't even want to have to whine.
Your point is, PvP players have been served scraps in other games, so it's OK if they get the good stuff in this one ? I beg to differ. It's OK if PvP gets good stuff, have your fun. It's not OK that it gets _the_ good stuff, and deprives non-PvPers in the process.
It's fine if GW is PvP-friendly, but that's not the reason I bought it in the first place, and certainly not what was advertised at the time.

The whole PvE-PvP interaction is going awry anyhow. A.net finally admitted it was stupid to force PvPers to run PvE just to unlock upgrades, and created factions. WaW is going so great that European servers feel like ghost towns (dommed from the start because of server switching anyway), and massive exodus hasn't even increased the overall player level : PUGs become hard to come by, and are no better than before. Why not create a PvE faction system ? Earn some <name> points in PvE, that you can spend to access restricted zones.

As for proposing an alternative : why should I ? I don't know the PvP population. Well, what little I saw, I don't like. Isn't the rank thing with the animal emotes enough ? Why don't PvPers make a wish-list for PvP rewards ? All we (PvE players) want is a PvE-based way to access a PvE element.

-malachi- · Sep 16, 2005, 02:45 PM // 14:45

The problem is, both sides don't really try to see the other sides view, and each side seems to think the other has it better. There seems like PvP/PvE will always fight eachother as most cannot see the merit of the opposite side. It honestly seems to me that PvP and PvE have already completely seperated regardless of how much the developers wanted it to work together. Most PvE'ers rarely go in to arenas or tombs, and vice versa.

As for the list for Rewards, I did that and got mostly flamed by PvE'ers who thought I wanted to steal all their pve fun.

I honestly think everything should be open to both sides, give the PvE'ers some sort of "hero" emote to compete with the animal emote, same difficulty to achieve though.
Let the pvp'ers unlock some of the cool "vanity" stuff the pve'ers have. Make them pay same prices in faction as the end cost in gold(including materials) for them to get unlocked though. Flame away, but I think nothing should be held from either side, not the fame emote, or the FoW/15k armor.

Gerbill · Sep 16, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

problem overview:

- Fame unequally divided, America has it too much.
Reason: American Server has a lot more players.

- For some PvE PvP connection.
People don't want to PvP to PvE so to speak.

- Too many Europeans in American Server.
Reason: Mainly because they have the favor more often.
Which leads to problem finding proper parties for.. a lot of things not only the Tombs.

- Europeans and Koreans have less of a peak time.

Yes you can say it only takes 8 skilled players... but that's the problem.. they're hard to find.. especially if a lot of them transfered to the American server.

Here are some solutions.. I'm not saying I'd be pleased with any of them.. they're just posibilities.

Solutions:

- Disconnect the link between PvE and PvP, thus always having free entrance to FoW and UW.

- Make the price like 8K (1K p.p) if your continent doesn't have favor, but you're still allowed to enter.

- Get everyone back to their original servers and don't allow swapping of servers.

- Add new areas which are similair to FoW and UW, which are free to enter at any given time.

- Add certain parts/quests in FoW and UW, that are only accesable if your continent have the Favor, but the rest will be accesable.

again.. I'm not saying these are THE solutions that MUST be implemented.. merely stating posibilities.

Albino Chocobo · Sep 16, 2005, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by -malachi-

The problem is, both sides don't really try to see the other sides view, and each side seems to think the other has it better. There seems like PvP/PvE will always fight eachother as most cannot see the merit of the opposite side. It honestly seems to me that PvP and PvE have already completely seperated regardless of how much the developers wanted it to work together.

The problem also is America vs Europe and Korea. I don't think PvE players in America complain too much, considering they are disconnected from PvP for all practical purposes. And no, PvE and PvP have not _completely_ separated yet. I just wish A.net would cut that final link. Or make it 2-ways. Like, no-one can obtain his tiger emote before a given number of PvE players complete some stupid quest. 'Cause that's what it feels like to wait for Favor : like hoping for rain, you can't do anything but wait. And no, don't even bother to tell me to compete. I'd rather move to another game than eat up 100+ hours of PvP just to up my PvP skills.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerbill

Get everyone back to their original servers and don't allow swapping of servers.

I wouldn't want that. It's a good thing that people can choose who they play with.
On the other hand, I wonder how this plays out for A.net. How do they deal with half of Europe's population loading America's servers ?

matiasdu · Sep 16, 2005, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

(calling it side since America and Korea are countries while Europe is a continent)

I thought they had Geography in elementary school.
Let me teach you all a shocking fact. "American Servers" covers all countries in North America, Central America and South America.
I am playing from Argentina, and upon registration automatically got assigned to American servers.
They ARE players from all countries of America (as in, the continent, or continents, depends on who you ask) playing. I am currently in a Guild with +20 players from Argentina alone, and I know at least 2 more Argentine Guilds of similar size or larger are out there. Canadians are here too.
If you do simple math, even if europeans played in the servers they are supposed to, Koreans and Europeans are still in statistical disadvantage, assuming those servers cover only Korea and Europe. However, I wonder, what servers are asigned by default to players who are neither European, American or Korean?

BTW: USA citizens should really start calling its country by its name, but I guess they are too lazy to add those 2 words that go before America.
I just had to type that

-malachi- · Sep 16, 2005, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albino Chocobo

The problem also is America vs Europe and Korea. I don't think PvE players in America complain too much, considering they are disconnected from PvP for all practical purposes. And no, PvE and PvP have not _completely_ separated yet. I just wish A.net would cut that final link. Or make it 2-ways. Like, no-one can obtain his tiger emote before a given number of PvE players complete some stupid quest. 'Cause that's what it feels like to wait for Favor : like hoping for rain, you can't do anything but wait. And no, don't even bother to tell me to compete. I'd rather move to another game than eat up 100+ hours of PvP just to up my PvP skills.

First, I never said to go compete, I don't like the people who try to tell eachother the way to play the game. You like pve, great, some like pvp, great too. It really doesn't bother me, what does is the fighting that occurs between the pve hardcore, and the pvp hardcore. Both sides always think the other has a one up or something, and refuse to think they deserve anything else. I agree a pve place should not be held from pve'ers, I even gave the 8k for teams with out favor idea.

And for all purposes pvp and pve are seperated..the only thing that ties them together is the favor system and *both* sides unwillingness to see eye to eye on any issue.

I believe Anet's reason for favor is to somewhat mimic the system in Lineage2 to steal some of its following, and if you don't think people live and breath Lin2 in korea, go look here www.mmogchart.com . In lineage2 the person who controls a certain area or something gets to set taxes for all items bought in that area...somewhat similar to getting the ability to go to a place with good drops when you hold favor.

DreamCatcher · Sep 16, 2005, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Navaros

on paper the World at War system is good

in reality, it sucks

reason being is because anyone who is peeved off at not having favor has no power whatsoever to do anything about it. Guild Wars is designed in such a way that a bunch of angry players can't just go and say "let's all meet in Tombs 3 and get favor back". they would lose in round 1 in Tombs.

Lol, exactly what I did (or tried to do).
2 weeks (and about 15x galrath) later I swapped server and took 6 european friends with me and we never regretted doing that ever since

It's sooo much better now that we can go trapping in UW whenever we friggin want to instead of like once every night, and sometimes not atall.

And if we'd be forced to stay on euroserver I'm sure half of us would quit

Gerbill · Sep 16, 2005, 11:56 PM // 23:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamCatcher

And if we'd be forced to stay on euroserver I'm sure half of us would quit

And that's exactly the problem.. The euroserver needs to be at least as attractive as the American one.. I mean we're allready divided in language districts.. it's hard to find a party as it is.. but a lot of people go to the American server with the single gain of FoW UW entrance.

I've promised myself and some others that we wouldn't do that, since we'll just stick in Europe.. then it's a bit harder.. and you get in FoW UW a bit less.. we still have lots of fun playing it, and I've tried to get HoH with some groups.. never succeeded but in my point of view.. it'll only make me more experienced after all the more times you're countered the more you'll learn...
apart from the times where the party is just filled with noobs..

But there is potential in Europe quite a lot.. they just need to get together in a party.. and that's the problem since we're divided in languages and people leave to the American server.